Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago · 7 min. reading time · ~10 ·

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You can take science out of philosophy, but.....

You can take science out of philosophy, but.....

5
TTT It \

Image credit: Wikipedia


.....you can't take philosophy out of science.


INTRODUCTION

In a discussion that was taking place recently on beBee, Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee wrote; “…the many buzzes that we inspired between us I shall not be surprised to read this chain "A post on a post on a post...." forming" The natural polymer of posts".

A polymer (/ˈpɒlᵻmər/; Greek poly-, "many" + -mer, "parts") is a large molecule, or macromolecule, composed of many repeated subunits. Because of their broad range of properties, both synthetic and natural polymers play an essential and ubiquitous role in everyday life. (Emphasis mine.)

In this case, the chain of posts and discussions have revolved around the topics of self and consciousness. Readers from many disciplines have engaged and contributed to this discussion, reflecting how some topics are not limited to one discipline; especially when the topic is about us and who we are. We are conscious beings. The difference between the personal and the professional me is context. The “who” I am engages with others and the world around me in the same way; it is the situation that changes, not me. So it is not a stretch to discuss who I am, as a conscious being, on social media. It especially makes sense on beBee.

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The following is an excerpt of my buzz, “Why Future Business Leaders Need Philosophy”.

“What is beBee? - beBee is a network for maximum affinity between users, specialized by fields, which allows users to connect and share experiences, skills and opportunities based on their interests.”
There is an embedded acknowledgment in beBee’s definition that we, as professionals, are made up of more than our profession. A holistic perspective is not just a “west coast” alternative way of looking at things. It simply implies that we are the sum of all our parts and that this whole is greater than its parts. This perspective leads to the discussion of what I consider the most important factor in achieving success:
As professionals, the one factor that can potentially make the difference in achieving our goals and experiencing success is integration.
“In order to successfully navigate in an uncertain, volatile and increasingly complex business environment, a supplementary approach to rational problem-solving and optimal decision-making is required.
The rising demand for both creative and concrete problem-solving as well as abstract and strategic thinking indicates the necessity to broaden the reflectivity-horizon of the narrow business perspective that future business leaders will determine their decisions within. Business tends to seek one rationalised conclusion at the expense of others. This closes opportunities, rather than opens them. Philosophy, on the other hand, can through critical reasoning continually question and rethink the assumed certainties and its basic premises. In this sense, business and philosophy might seem poles apart at first glance and their interdisciplinary potential has for long been largely unrecognized on traditional business schools, but this is about to change.”
- AndersPoulsen*
“Philosophy (from Greek φιλοσοφία, philosophia, literally "love of wisdom”…Historically, "philosophy" encompassed any body of knowledge.[14] From the time of Ancient Greek philosopher Aristotle to the 19th century, "natural philosophy" encompassed astronomy, medicine and physics…In the 19th century, the growth of modern research universities led academic philosophy and other disciplines to professionalize and specialize… In the modern era, some investigations that were traditionally part of philosophy became separate academic disciplines, including psychology, sociology, linguistics and economics.” - Wikipedia
With philosophy, the pendulum was on the side of integration. With the breaking down of philosophy into its individual new disciplines, the momentum took us towards specialization. Today, being in the divide is not working for us; it is artificial and limiting.
What is the connection between philosophy and integration?

“Philosophy is like trying to open a safe with a combination lock: each little adjustment of the dials seems to achieve nothing, only when everything is in place does the door open.” - Ludwig Wittgenstein

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Myself and the following bees; Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee, Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee, Harvey Lloyd, Harvey Lloyd, Ian Weinberg, Ian Weinberg, Melissa Hefferman, are working on opening that door. I invite others to contribute to the combination that will allow the door to open.





Image credit: blog.gainsvillecoins.com


DISCUSSION

The following is a discussion that took place after I posted the quote by Nietzsche:

“Main thought! The individual himself is a fallacy. Everything which happens in us is in itself something else which we do not know. ‘The individual’ is merely a sum of conscious feelings and judgments and misconceptions, a belief, a piece of the true life system or many pieces thought together and spun together, a ‘unity’, that doesn’t hold together. We are buds on a single tree—what do we know about what can become of us from the interests of the tree! But we have a consciousness as though we would and should be everything, a phantasy of ‘I’ and all ‘not I.’ Stop feeling oneself as this phantastic ego! Learn gradually to discard the supposed individual! Discover the fallacies of the ego! Recognize egoism as fallacy! The opposite is not to be understood as altruism! This would be love of other supposed individuals! No! Get beyond ‘myself’ and ‘yourself’! Experience cosmically!”

The comments appear in chronological order.

CityVP 🐝 Manjit: Learn, discard, discover recognize, understand and love. The essence of existence.
SJ: I consider the list you offer as qualities/skills/functions of consciousness; parts of the “essence of existence.”


Harvey Lloyd: Friedrich Nietzsche, The Parable of the Madman (1882) http://www.historyguide.org/europe/madman.html
The fallacy of self cannot be experienced without someone else. Like any view of self, it can be overrun by any aspect of intrinsic review. But without another in which top compare the view is moot. I agree with aspects of the quote but see the absence of existing within a society of self's.
Philosophy is a challenge when the writer comes to the singularity of existence and excludes our social needs and responsibilities.
Can i truly know who i am without the reflection of my community?
“A nihilist is a man who judges that the real world ought not to be, and that the world as it ought to be does not exist. According to this view, our existence (action, suffering, willing, feeling) has no meaning: this 'in vain' is the nihilists' pathos—an inconsistency on the part of the nihilists.” - Friedrich Nietzsche, KSA 12:9 [60], taken from The Will to Power, section 585, translated by Walter Kaufmann
SJ: I consider your valuable argument an example of the complexity of who we are as conscious beings. In response to your question, “Can i truly know who i am without the reflection of my community?”, I offer the following paradox:
One can only arrive at the conscious conclusion, after a process of self-reflection, that “nothing in the world has a real existence”, after being in the world and in relation to others.


Melissa Hefferman: “…by "experiencing cosmically" we move beyond egocentricity to a state of heightened consciousness whereby we think globally rather than in a state of self- awareness. Searching for a connection I wanted to pose the question of how you think this correlates with artists who relate that they composed their art in a "stream of consciousness" state, i.e., the muse flowed through them, they being a mere channel for expressing the work of art/ music?
SJ: From my perspective, this process that you describe, which any individual can experience be they “artist” or not, comes from an altered state of consciousness. Being in that altered state gives us the potential to transcend the boundaries of “self” and to “see” things in a different light. Whether the individual responds to that muse which flows from within or experiences being in the flow itself, opens up a new and interesting discussion.


Ian Weinberg: Yes, indeed I would contend that our individual consciousnesses are each unique and represent a convergence point of subjectivity. And this subjectivity will materialize a physical micro-environment resonant with itself. This 'personal consciousness' however is limited by its intrinsic subjectivity. The path to absolute or authentic consciousness is one that embraces the running meta-state narrative which forms from awareness of self and the extended environment. For I believe that it is the all-seeing eye of the meta-state consciousness that connects us to an authentic universal singularity.
SJ: I am reminded of the process of creation (biblical or scientific) from whole to parts and from parts to whole. After Einstein, we refer to spacetime, a fourth dimension, versus the dimension of space separate from the dimension of time. As I consider myself now, in this state of being, I am in flux, moving to integrate, separating to experience and learn. At this point, there is no other “I” except my subjective “I”. From my perspective, this subjectivity becomes limiting only when I get stuck. As long as I keep in the flow, my potential is limitless.


Harvey Lloyd: Cosmic is a lovely word but there are people in the world of physics that posit a multiverse, so not even the cosmic is individual. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/multiverse-the-case-for-parallel-universe/
This is where science becomes philosophy because how do we prove the existence of multiverse rather than a single universe. Therein exists the ultimate point of the cosmic - we don't know. Could the artist then help us with this imagination?
Philosophers don't know. Science does not know. Artists don't know and they are one's that should have the primary imagination to contemplate the impossible. It is therefore an arrogance that we can experience the cosmic when it is well beyond the conceptual ability of even the brightest human minds to go beyond the known universe.
What it does to is make the idea of being individual as humility more useful than individual as fallacy. Individual as humility is a wisdom we can scale, as much as our limitations imposed by this thing called life in a universe of universes. If the individual universe is the fallacy then it is well beyond the scope of what humans’ imagination to experience cosmically.
We can use that scale of humility at an individual level for the brief existence of what we then humbly label as our individuality.
SJ: I think that is why we get great minds like Socrates to establish the humbling paradox, "I know that I know nothing".


Melissa Hefferman: Hmmm. Pale Fire came to mind, "Does resurrection choose? What year? Who has the stopwatch? Who rewinds the tape? Are some less lucky, or do all escape? A syllogism; other men die but I am not another: therefore, I'll not die." Nabokov. Sometimes I wonder why we can't just say what we think without needing validation of quotes and data and proof of all these opinions and ideas and beliefs that are ultimately uncertain. I think this, I'm wrong all the time, I think. I feel, acutely aware of my separateness (pass the coffee, what's on TV, how many sales for 20 calls to earn 20 million to.. I climb and fall off and climb and fall off and climb again the tower of babel and it goes on and on) yet conscious of my connection to the whole (an inexplicable painting or chord or sonata which we shall attempt to express nonetheless forever and ever and/end ever). Is Love cosmic? Sometimes I Love everything, but that's not me? Is it possible to sense We without first knowing Me? Some ego is sometimes necessary, yet this isn't necessarily true for another. Nietzsche also said you must have chaos within to give birth to a dancing star. So, I'll just dance, yes yes, like leaves swaying in a tree. 
SJ: I have to quote you because how you expressed yourself and communicated the process of you, cannot be said in any other way.


CONCLUSION

"Synchronistically" I have been reading on the topic discussed and would like to share the work of Stuart Hameroff


"The nature of consciousness remains deeply mysterious and profoundly important, with existential, medical and spiritual implication. We know what it is like to be conscious – to have awareness, a conscious ‘mind’, but who, or what, are ‘we’ who know such things? How is the subjective nature of phenomenal experience – our ‘inner life’ - to be explained in scientific terms? What consciousness actually is, and how it comes about remain unknown. The general assumption in modern science and philosophy - the ‘standard model’ - is that consciousness emerges from complex computation among brain neurons, computation whose currency is seen as neuronal firings (‘spikes’) and synaptic transmissions, equated with binary ‘bits’ in digital computing. Consciousness is presumed to ‘emerge’ from complex neuronal computation, and to have arisen during biological evolution as an adaptation of living systems, extrinsic to the makeup of the universe. On the other hand, spiritual and contemplative traditions, and some scientists and philosophers consider consciousness to be intrinsic, ‘woven into the fabric of the universe’. In these views, conscious precursors and Platonic forms preceded biology, existing all along in the fine scale structure of reality.
My research involves a theory of consciousness which can bridge these two approaches, a theory developed over the past 20 years with eminent British physicist Sir Roger Penrose. Called ‘orchestrated objective reduction’ (‘Orch OR’), it suggests 
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consciousness arises from quantum vibrations in protein polymers called microtubules inside the brain’s neurons, vibrations which interfere, ‘collapse’ and resonate across scale, control neuronal firings, generate consciousness, and connect ultimately to ‘deeper order’ ripples in spacetime geometry. Consciousness is more like music than computation."  (Emphasis mine.)




Image credit: Wikipedia

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Comments

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #16

#37
Beautifully said Cyndi wilkins. Thanks.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #15

#31
This is a signature Harvey Lloyd comment. Thanks for the contribution. I must say, your concluding line has left its impact on me; "Science is the "how" and spiritual/consciousness is the "why".

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #14

#32
I like the way you organized your thoughts Gert Scholtz. In the spirit of philosophy, Aristotle produced the work Problemata; each volume made up of questions related to a topic. He had one on Music and used similar descriptions such as yours, "We improvise, mix tunes and melodies, play in harmony with an orchestra, orchestrate a band..." All musical elements can be found in any aspect of our lives; physical, emotional/psychological, social and spiritual. What I love about the line in Hameroff's quote is that he finds the music in the deepest parts of our brain. His is an inward view while Pythagoras and Plato looked outward; "There is a legend that Pythagoras could hear the 'music of the spheres' enabling him to discover that consonant musical intervals can be expressed in simple ratios of small integers. The tones correlated with the great celestial movements of the day. Pythagoras' concepts were transferred by Plato and others into models about the structure of the universe."

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #13

#30
Dear Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee. I think it comes simply from the fact that your fingers can't keep up with your mind and you "see" and think past what you write.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #12

#24
Thanks for highlighting the music metaphor Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee. When it comes to music and consciousness, music is perceived at every level or state of consciousness. Although music is seen as a skill, or related to a "talent", elements of music appear in every aspect of our lives; physical, emotional/psychological, social and spiritual. Many scientists are also musicians. “If I were not a physicist, I would probably be a musician. I often think in music. I live my daydreams in music. I see my life in terms of music.” ― Albert Einstein

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #11

#22
Looking forward to the engagement Gert Scholtz.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #10

#21
Very appreciative of your ongoing support and encouragement debasish majumder.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #9

#20
Great added value to the discussion Milos Djukic.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #8

#19
Dear Milos Djukic, thank you for your comment and generous words. You write, "Freedom of self-expression is worth fighting for, that is the essential meaning of the self - similarity concept." In the many discussions about purpose, identity, self, and community, I think this line captures what is at the core and heart of it all. Thanks again.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #7

#16
Thanks for the share and for sharing your link @Yogesh Sukal. Your poem is very connected to this discussion. Your question, an important one, in a way answers itself; "So do you know everything or nothing to know more about everything." I like that it's cyclical rather than linear.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #6

#12
Thank you Savvy Raj for adding your insights to help open "the unlocked doors".

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #5

#13
Sincerely humbled by your response Ian Weinberg. Thank you for being an important contributor.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #4

#10
Appreciate your contribution Deb \ud83d\udc1d Helfrich.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #3

#7
#8 No problem Simone Luise Hardt. Glad to be connected. Here is a great example of how we can be connected and yet respectfully disagree. Which, of course, makes the connection more interesting. I don't believe that if the situation changes, we change too. I believe that there is a core "me" that adapts to situations and grows and learns from different situations. As well, I think I influence changes in my environment and relationships with others. In this way, I am a catalyst of change.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #2

#3
#5 You have enriched this discussion with the inclusion of James Allen and with your creative and insightful writing. Thank you.

Sara Jacobovici

6 years ago #1

#1
Thank you so much Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee for your response, energy and support. Looking forward to future exchanges.

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